Alexandre Ma
Wine journalist
Introduction
Gerda Beziade: What is your general view of Château Angélus?
Alexandre Ma: Before 2017, Angélus was a classic Grand Vin — but different from the Saint-Émilions on the plateau. After 2017, Angélus became a “Pinot-like” Saint-Émilion.
GB: What is the difference between the identity of the wines from the limestone plateau of Saint-Émilion and that of Angélus?
AM: Wines from the limestone plateau have very high acidity, with a rather soft tannic structure. In their youth, they are powerful (quite tight), but with age they become more harmonious while retaining a saline backbone.
Angélus does not naturally have this salinity. It benefits more from the slope, and thus from greater ripeness, being fully south-facing. Moreover, Angélus has a high proportion of Cabernet Franc. Compared to other estates that also use it, Angélus’s Cabernet Franc is truly precise and airy.
I especially noticed this change starting with the 2017 vintage. But the real new chapter for Angélus began with 2018 and 2019 — it became an iconic wine.
The Evolution of Style: From Structure to Finesse
GB : This new style of Angélus, starting from the 2018 vintage — does it come from the fact that they now age a large part of their Cabernet Franc in large oak casks (foudres)?
AM : Yes, certainly. And starting with the 2019 vintage, I really felt what Angélus was aiming for: a Right Bank wine with a high proportion of Cabernet Franc, almost Pinot-like.
I’ve met quite a few long-time Angélus drinkers. When I introduced them to the new style of Angélus, they said: “This is also the Angélus I love — but it’s a different style.”
GB : Yes, Angélus has a different style today, without losing its DNA. What is the current profile of Angélus, and what part of its DNA has it retained?
AM : Angélus now shows more ethereal, floral aromas — very crystalline, transparent, and vibrant. Even the color of the wine is lighter.
The DNA of Angélus lies in its compact structure, which it has not lost since 2019. It’s just expressed differently — from the attack to the finish. There’s no loss of concentration, but rather more velvety, airy, finely chiseled expressions. All of this creates great variation during tasting.
GB : What other elements of Angélus’s DNA has it retained, even while changing style?AM : There’s that bitterness — always present at the end, in the finish.
GB : But a bitterness that is, to me, acceptable.
AM : Yes. In China, we have an old saying: “Without having known bitterness, one cannot truly know sweetness.”
Carillon d’Angélus: The Mosaic Wine
GB : We tasted two vintages of Carillon and two of Angélus, starting with Carillon 2016. It’s an exceptional vintage, very classic for Bordeaux. How did you find Carillon 2016, which is no longer the second wine of Angélus but, as Stéphanie puts it, a “mosaic wine”? Do you agree with her?
AM : As with Angélus, the real major change for Carillon came with the 2019 vintage, the first to be vinified in the new winery.
As for 2016, thanks to the quality of the vintage, it was able to express much of what its terroirs have to offer.
But when you compare 2016 with 2019, you can clearly sense that 2016 has less aromatic expression. It’s less airy, a bit more serious and restrained. That restraint gives it depth, but it doesn’t have the current typicity of Carillon, the one that has emerged since the new Carillon winery. Still, it remains a very good wine, especially after nine years of aging.
GB : We truly discover the new style of Carillon with the 2022 vintage, vinified in the new cellar.
AM : 2022 is a vintage I presented often in China. I always said: It’s a kind of vintage you almost never find in Bordeaux — so accessible in its youth. Carillon 2022 is a perfect example of that. You don’t feel any hint of oak or strong extraction. The wine is balanced from start to finish.ne sent aucune notion de bois ni d’extraction forte. Le vin est équilibré du début à la fin.
GB : You’re in contact with the end consumer and organize beautiful tastings in China for Bordeaux wines. Is it difficult to explain that Carillon d’Angélus is a mosaic wine — that it doesn’t come from the Angélus terroir and is therefore no longer a second wine?
AM : Yes. According to Angélus, they clearly want to distinguish Carillon from the Grand Vin. But in China, many consumers still think Carillon is a second wine.
GB : Creating a branded wine like Carillon — both accessible and carrying the identity of Angélus — did that reflect a particular vision?
AM : Consumers want a high-quality Carillon at a more approachable price, with the assurance that it belongs to the great Angélus family. The wine benefits from the same bell symbol — a very powerful one, especially in Asia.
In countries that developed later, like China in the late 2000s, everyone has an entrepreneurial spirit — everyone dreams of ringing the bell on Wall Street. The bell is a symbol of success. That’s one of the reasons why Angélus succeeded so strongly in Asia in the early 2000s. And on the Carillon label, there are even three bells!
From 2012 to 2020: The Quest for Purity
GB : After the two Carillon vintages, we tasted Angélus 2012, with that beautiful label created to celebrate the family’s 200 years at Angélus. The 2012 vintage was more favorable to the Right Bank than to the Left. How did you find Angélus 2012?
AM : 2012 was a late vintage. It wasn’t a hot year, but rather dry with moderate temperatures.
Why did Saint-Émilion perform so well in 2012? Because of the water reserves in its limestone subsoil. When the temperature remains moderate, there’s less evaporation, and that underground water sustains the vines.
Angélus 2012 is not a great vintage, but it has a polished texture and natural richness. You find toasty notes, almost like meat jus. It’s a wine that doesn’t fully express its terroir, but rather the technical choices of that time.
GB : Because the winemaking approach was different back then?
AM : Yes, exactly. At that time, there was more extraction, more oak, and a stronger desire to emphasize structure.
Today, winemaking is softer and gentler, because there’s no longer a need to reinforce a structure the wine already possesses naturally. When you taste Angélus 2020, it’s like a ruby crystal.
GB : Yes, the terroir likely expresses itself better today — but people talk more and more about drinkability. Do you think that’s real progress, or is there a risk of moving away from Bordeaux’s typicity — it’s tannins and structure?
AM : I completely agree with you. In everything — people, objects — I love what has both mental and physical richness. A wine without wisdom or depth cannot age. I want to feel real life in a wine. I encourage consumers to be patient, to accompany the wine’s development.
GB : A great wine should be good from the start, but not flattering. Flattery is too easy — and often short-lived.
AM : Exactly. Look at Beaujolais Nouveau — you can make banana aromas from almost any grape; it’s very flattering. It was a huge success in Paris and Japan, but now consumption has dropped sharply.
A great wine often gives the illusion of simplicity, but that’s a subtle illusion. Like in minimalist design, everything seems effortless — yet it takes immense precision and work to reach that calm purity.
GB : 2020 is a great wine. It retains its structure but is more focused and refined.u.
AM : Yes, it’s brighter, more smiling. It hasn’t lost its identity, character, or class.
GB : Do you agree with Stéphanie? Between the three vintages — 2018, 2019, and 2020 — is 2020 the best?
AM : Yes, 2020 is definitely the best.
Why? Because at Angélus, when you have a cooler, more structured vintage, you reduce the amount of aging. And when there’s less new oak, the mid-palate substance must be naturally strong.
Among 2018, 2019, and 2020, the last one has that natural core of matter.
2019 is the vintage everyone loves — it’s charming, effortless, flowing.
2018 is more flattering, eager to please, a bit showy.
But 2020 says: “I may only show you 20% of my potential. Come closer — discover the remaining 80% beyond my floral appearance.”
So yes, 2020 is truly a great vintage of Angélus.
The Chinese Market and the Future of Bordeaux
GB : This summer, you spent two months in China. How do you feel about the Chinese market?
AM : Every time I go back to China, I always learn something new. Everyone in the wine industry adapts year after year. This time, I received a lot of feedback — both good and bad.
On the positive side, Bordeaux wines, especially the 2022 vintage I presented, really impressed people. Even at such a young stage, it’s highly appealing. I often hear: “I know this wine, but it feels different.” There’s no doubt about the quality — everyone agrees we’re making truly beautiful wines.
The real issue isn’t price itself, but the lack of protected pricing. There’s too much variation in price ranges, which means importers, distributors, and retailers can’t secure a stable margin. As a result, they’re hesitant to promote Bordeaux’s great wines — unless a customer specifically requests them.
Many wines remain affordable, but without price protection and reliable margins, importers lose confidence and motivation. It’s not a question of quality — it’s a commercial risk. Unfortunately, this prevents many excellent wines from reaching the market.
But from what I know of Chinese consumers and the growing interest among younger generations, there’s no doubt that as the global economy recovers, the Chinese market will truly flourish.
So for now, the best thing we can do is keep doing our work well — patiently.
As we say: the flowers will bloom one day.
